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My Thoughts on HGH...

Racepicks

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Jan 5, 2013
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Here is an interesting article on Protein Structures and their related Amino Acid Sequences.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/protein-structure-14122136

What caught my attention was the Chaperone Protein:


How Do Proteins Arrive at Their Final Shapes?

"In theory, once their constituent amino acids are strung together, proteins attain their final shapes without any energy input. In reality, however, the cytoplasm is a crowded place, filled with many other macromolecules capable of interacting with a partially folded protein. Inappropriate associations with nearby proteins can interfere with proper folding and cause large aggregates of proteins to form in cells. Cells therefore rely on so-called chaperone proteins to prevent these inappropriate associations with unintended folding partners.

Chaperone proteins surround a protein during the folding process, sequestering the protein until folding is complete. For example, in bacteria, multiple molecules of the chaperone GroEL form a hollow chamber around proteins that are in the process of folding. Molecules of a second chaperone, GroES, then form a lid over the chamber. Eukaryotes use different families of chaperone proteins, although they function in similar ways.

Chaperone proteins are abundant in cells. These chaperones use energy from ATP to bind and release polypeptides as they go through the folding process. Chaperones also assist in the refolding of proteins in cells. Folded proteins are actually fragile structures, which can easily denature, or unfold. Although many thousands of bonds hold proteins together, most of the bonds are noncovalent and fairly weak. Even under normal circumstances, a portion of all cellular proteins are unfolded. Increasing body temperature by only a few degrees can significantly increase the rate of unfolding. When this happens, repairing existing proteins using chaperones is much more efficient than synthesizing new ones. Interestingly, cells synthesize additional chaperone proteins in response to "heat shock." "


I wonder of I can get Jano in here to comment on these "Chaperone Proteins", and if they may negate the ability of an Amino Acid chain to be folded incorrectly.
 

j2048b

Registered User
May 11, 2013
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Yes, well said. That is pretty much where I fall on the subject. I wonder how people can tell if the HGH is making a difference when they are using 5 different compounds and a couple of orals. I believe much of it is psychosomatic. They so want the HGH to make a difference, their minds begin to play tricks on them.

Well you could "enlist" a few to use hgh by its self.....im off trt, never cycled and if i can i can try some by its self to be a test subject....

Not even sure im gonna go back on trt, im tired of pinning it since the early 2000's anyways....

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

janoshik

AnaSCI Approved Tester
Mar 7, 2016
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I'll reply in relation to HGH:

Chaperones are intracellular proteins - therefore they are located inside of cells.

When HGH is injected subcutaneously, it gets distributed through the body by blood. The activity of HGH is mediated through HGH receptor on the surface of cells - HGH itself never actually enters the cell, so it doesn't come into contact with chaperones at all.
 

MR. BMJ

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I could be wrong, but I think of HGH like I do insulin and AAS, there will be those who absolutely respond like crazy to it, a very small group, and others who will fall in between that and those who can't tell if it's working or not. I think most of us fall in the in-between area. I've only used HGH a handful of times, so i'm not that experienced with it myself, but know so many people that have been using it for so long, so that's usually what I go by and compare it to Janos testing.

I mainly use it (or will use it) for anti-aging purposes, fat burning, and any injury benefits that it may provide. I can't afford large doses, so i'd have to fall in the 1-5iu/d or EOD dosing scheme. I've known guys who noted it's visual effects of making them 'look good' year round, and then after awhile they can't tell any differences....until they come off, and then it becomes apparent to them again.


Just thinking out loud here while the kids are yelling at me, lol:)
 

Racepicks

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Jan 5, 2013
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I could be wrong, but I think of HGH like I do insulin and AAS, there will be those who absolutely respond like crazy to it, a very small group, and others who will fall in between that and those who can't tell if it's working or not. I think most of us fall in the in-between area. I've only used HGH a handful of times, so i'm not that experienced with it myself, but know so many people that have been using it for so long, so that's usually what I go by and compare it to Janos testing.

I mainly use it (or will use it) for anti-aging purposes, fat burning, and any injury benefits that it may provide. I can't afford large doses, so i'd have to fall in the 1-5iu/d or EOD dosing scheme. I've known guys who noted it's visual effects of making them 'look good' year round, and then after awhile they can't tell any differences....until they come off, and then it becomes apparent to them again.


Just thinking out loud here while the kids are yelling at me, lol:)

I'm sure you are correct. I'm sure there are people who genetically respond to HGH in an immense way, while others are just wasting their time and money. Don't get me wrong, for anti-aging and injury recovery, it is a valuable resource. I just don't think all the hoop-la we heard years ago about it's ability to multiply muscle cells (Hyperplasia) has ever been validated. I just heard Dave Palumbo say a major benefit of HGH is muscle growth. I'm just not sure I believe it.
 

Racepicks

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Jan 5, 2013
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I'll reply in relation to HGH:

Chaperones are intracellular proteins - therefore they are located inside of cells.

When HGH is injected subcutaneously, it gets distributed through the body by blood. The activity of HGH is mediated through HGH receptor on the surface of cells - HGH itself never actually enters the cell, so it doesn't come into contact with chaperones at all.

Understood :headbang:

I guess my next question would be....what are your thoughts on Pharmaceutical HGH possessing correct Amino Acid chain folds versus "Tested" Chinese generic HGH being folded incorrectly?
 

janoshik

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Mar 7, 2016
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Understood :headbang:

I guess my next question would be....what are your thoughts on Pharmaceutical HGH possessing correct Amino Acid chain folds versus "Tested" Chinese generic HGH being folded incorrectly?

It's not possible in my opinion. HGH doesn't have THAT complicated structure - it basically 'folds itself' as long as it is not in very aggressive environment. And aggressive environment = other, easily detectable changes in the hormone.

Unfolding is also called denaturation - heat, or SDS ('soap') can cause that. Denatured HGH is not only easy to detect (or rather not detect as HGH), it can be seen by bare eye - cloudy liquid in the vial.

My opinion is that the major difference between generics and pharmaceutical preparations is the stability (how long it last, dissolved or not) and amount of impurities.
 

Racepicks

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It's not possible in my opinion. HGH doesn't have THAT complicated structure - it basically 'folds itself' as long as it is not in very aggressive environment. And aggressive environment = other, easily detectable changes in the hormone.

Unfolding is also called denaturation - heat, or SDS ('soap') can cause that. Denatured HGH is not only easy to detect (or rather not detect as HGH), it can be seen by bare eye - cloudy liquid in the vial.

My opinion is that the major difference between generics and pharmaceutical preparations is the stability (how long it last, dissolved or not) and amount of impurities.

Most people believe that these Amino Chains which are folded incorrectly (Chinese Generic HGH) could result in degenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's or Diabetes. If I understand your position, because these incorrectly folded chains do not enter the cell, it should not be a concern? (This is a theoretical question since you do not believe the Amino Chains can be folded incorrectly).

Also, I know what people are thinking, so I'll ask. Are you insinuating that if you add Biostatic Water to the puck, and the liquid appears cloudy, the HGH has been denatured?
 
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janoshik

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Mar 7, 2016
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Most people believe that these Amino Chains which are folded incorrectly (Chinese Generic HGH) could result in degenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's or Diabetes. If I understand your position, because these incorrectly folded chains do not enter the cell, it should not be a concern? (This is a theoretical question since you do not believe the Amino Chains can be folded incorrectly).

Also, I know what people are thinking, so I'll ask. Are you insinuating that if you add Biostatic Water to the puck, and the liquid appears cloudy, the HGH has been denatured?

Well, I'll go by the examples you've provided and provide the simplest reason why is wouldn't be the case:

Alzheimer and Parkinson are diseases of Central Nervous System. Peptide hormones don't pass blood-brain barrier, so it can't be caused by them directly.

If autoimmune reaction is implied - that's when immune system encounters something it doesn't like and creates antibodies against it.

Unfortunately those antibodies are not perfect sometimes, so if there's another thing in your body that looks eerily similar to what the antibodies were made to 'fight' they go full on berserk on it as well.

Now, does HGH, even if it could have been folded wrong look like anything else in Central Nervous System? Not that I'm aware of.


I could make hundreds of cases more, as I could write pages about patophysiology of Alzheimers disease and Parkisonism, but I don't see a point in writing materials that are incredibly hard to comprehend (mainly due to the fact that I have been studying medicine in different language :D ) with little additional benefit to anybody.




Now, in regard to diabetes - considering the fact that I don't think misfolded HGH exists and the fact that HGH in abundance is known cause of diabetes, it's entirely possible that chinese generic hgh causes it.


If after adding the sterile water to puck the liquid is cloudy (not foamy, foam, that goes down after a little while is okay) there is something wrong and I'd not use it. There might be other causes of cloudy liquid, but in my opinion denatured HGH is the most likely.




Some points that might be interesting to you:
1. injecting denatured hormone does nothing to you at first, it takes time to produce antibodies against it
2. only organ that might be upset by it is kidneys and it would require long time use of HUGE amounts of low quality hormone - the antibodies bound to 'bad' hormone could 'clog' the kidneys. however the amounts and time involved is not likely to ever happen with GH imo. Heavy exercise is much more straining on kidneys than that, imo.
3. I'm aware of one case of recombinant GH causing autoimmune issue and it was 192aa HGH which is not manufactured for years now.
4. The majority of autoimmune issues and similar that were reported were from cadaver GH and some seem to persist to present. Obviously that is not applicable to hormone made by recombinant process.
5. Some issues might be caused by endotoxin that might be present in low quality hormone preparations. These however present themselves rapidly as local reaction (swelling, redness) at point of injection. Local reaction however can also be caused by wrong pH of the preparation (which again, can point to low quality).


I've actually had a talk with a professor of sports medicine when I was still in med school about this and he had some of the arguments I had debunked here.

Later on when there was no audience, he even admitted to me being right and that some of the myths are perpetuated in order to discourage people from use of PEDs.
 

Racepicks

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It's amazing the amount of bullshit associated with our game. Go to other forums and you keep reading all the perpetual myths that keep getting regurgitated by the uninformed. That is why, here on Anasci, we ask the questions to get real answers. I guarantee if members of other forums stop by and read these last few posts, they will immediately call bullshit on it. That's OK! They have already expressed doubts about Jano's credentials. If I was in his shoes, I probably would leave and never look back. Why subject yourself to the criticism? The Money from testing? I'm sure he won't be buying a villa on the French Riviera with the proceeds. Thanks for your answers, Jano. Very much an eye opener.
 

Sparkss

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Aug 19, 2018
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Now, in regard to diabetes - considering the fact that I don't think misfolded HGH exists and the fact that HGH in abundance is known cause of diabetes, it's entirely possible that chinese generic hgh causes it

New HGH user. I have done as much reading as I could and have heard that before. But I have yet to hear a definition of what constitutes as "abundance", and how much duration of use plays a role as the amount used.

Great thread, fantastic reads.
 

Racepicks

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Jan 5, 2013
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New HGH user. I have done as much reading as I could and have heard that before. But I have yet to hear a definition of what constitutes as "abundance", and how much duration of use plays a role as the amount used.

Great thread, fantastic reads.

Generally speaking he recommended amount of HGH dose,from my experience, for Bodybuilding purposes is 4 to 6iu's/day. Of course there are some trainers who do not recommend HGH use at all. I'll let Jano speak for himself, but I would guess he is talking about 10+iu's as an abundance.
 

Racepicks

AnaSCI VIP
Jan 5, 2013
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New HGH user. I have done as much reading as I could and have heard that before. But I have yet to hear a definition of what constitutes as "abundance", and how much duration of use plays a role as the amount used.

Great thread, fantastic reads.

Generally speaking the recommended amount of HGH dose, from my experience, for Bodybuilding purposes is 4 to 6iu's/day. Of course there are some trainers who do not recommend HGH use at all. I'll let Jano speak for himself, but I would guess he is talking about 10+iu's as an abundance.
 

Racepicks

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Jan 5, 2013
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Here is another question for Jano (he's going to start charging me pretty soon).

What is your thought on HGH and Hyperplasia. Science does not seem to be behind the theory. Although they have seen this phenomenon in lab animals and humans suffering from muscle debilitating diseases, the jury is still out on it's effect on healthy individuals.

Interesting Read...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439518/
 

janoshik

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Mar 7, 2016
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As far as I am aware, the muscle cell hyperplasia doesn't exist sensu stricto. (muscle cells dividing)

Getting more muscle cells through other means (satellite cells, bonemarrow derived cells) seems to be extremely minor effect that can't really be exploited for our purposes.

Otherwise, I assume, it would've have already been used in medicine for various issues, including but not limited to heart attacks...

And we can safely assume that there's more money in fighting late onset effect of myocardial infarction than bodybuilding.