Need some encouragement...

[MilburnCreek]

So, I'm 5 weeks into my 6th cycle, and I don't see or feel any improvement at all. Getting very frustrated.

On 750 mg Sust and 400 Primo per week, plus 25 d-Bol every workout day, working 4 days a week, and eating CLEAN 4000 cals.

I dont see any growth (I've seen growth in every cycle so far), and if anything, I'm holding more fat in the belly than usual.

Of course I'll stick with this through the 12th week (I always do 12 week cycles), but I don't quite understand why I'm not seeing anything. Maybe I just need more time....

 

[Magnus82]

What's your training like brother, sounds like it may be time to mix things up

 

[Elvia1023]

What's your training like brother, sounds like it may be time to mix things up

x2

Plus your nutrition is everything when it comes to bulking or cutting.

What do you eat on a usual day?

 

[MilburnCreek]

x2

Plus your nutrition is everything when it comes to bulking or cutting.

What do you eat on a usual day?

Training: I usually do about 16 sets over the course of an hour, rotating through shoulders, chest/tris, biceps/upper back, and compounds (deadlifts/squats/Leg presses), working out every other day. I actually have begun to mix it up quite a bit this time, because I just changed gyms and they have more machine-based equipment ( I used to be 100% free weights and cables; I'm about 50% free weights and 50% machines now).

As for diet, a typical day is :

nut-based granola as soon as I get up.

Shake (1000 cals) about two hours later (protein powder, banana, cottage cheese, low-fat milk, penaut butter),

-work out -

post workout Shake (same as above)

Dinner is usually a huge steak or about 1.5 lbs salmon or two huge skinless chicken breasts, all with with brown rice or potatoes and greens (spinach usually)

Before Bed: yogurt, natural peanut butter & apples, sometimes a wedge of low-fat cheese.

 

[AR-15]

I don't care what he eats or trains. No offense. If he's at 4000 calories a day and is five weeks in training 4x a week he should notice something. Sust and D-bol should show something after 5 weeks. I can see the primo being a little hard to get something from if diet and exercise is off but IMO I'd be flipping out. NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD DO THAT!!!! But you gotta be honest and dig a little deeper to see if something's wrong somewhere else....AR....

 

[Magnus82]

Brother, I think your shy on the calories. My shakes are similar and are just over half that, around 600 calories. One thing I've found working with people, the ones loosing weight are usually overestimating and those trying to gain are underestimating. I think this may be one of the problems. For one week, put everything you eat into the app, my fitness pal, I think you'll be suprised. Also keep in mind your really only getting in one decent meal. Should be closer to 4 or 5

As far as training goes, have you tried a high frequency/low volume program. I've found as I get older, I respond to this type of training much better than high volume. Consider a 2 way split eod. If you feel you can handle more, either increase the sets or go 2 on 1 off. You also mentioned you recently switched from 100% free weights to 50% free 50% machines. This may also have something to do with it.

Gear wise, I hate to think all of it is bunk, but you never know. Your dbol could certainly be underdosed as you should definitely have felt it by now, if anything some bloat. Try doing an additional 25mg preworkout. Susts ester should be kicking in about now. Be sure to do eod inj to get the most out of it.

Of course there is the obvious. Maximize your training by going into them fully hydrated. Looks like you could also use some slower burning carbs like oats preworkout and about 40g-60 more faster carbs post.

 

[Elvia1023]

I don't care what he eats or trains. No offense. If he's at 4000 calories a day and is five weeks in training 4x a week he should notice something. Sust and D-bol should show something after 5 weeks. I can see the primo being a little hard to get something from if diet and exercise is off but IMO I'd be flipping out. NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD DO THAT!!!! But you gotta be honest and dig a little deeper to see if something's wrong somewhere else....AR....

Could be true but more info is needed. He is only using 25mg dbol pre training so 100mg per week so not a huge amount. Plus has he used dbol before. This is his 6th cycle... what were did his last 2 cycles look like.

His gear could be crap but some guys jump to that conclusion too fast at times and those are usually the ones with poor diets.

Take me for instance I have taken a lot of gear over the years. Not huge doses but lots of different cycles. Sometimes I take something like 50mg winny and I feel it alittle but will think is it underdosed etc. I give it to my newbie mate and he will say after 3 days fuck this is amazing. It can be a bit different when you have used 50mg winny 5 times before.

Just adding as Magnus alluded to how do we know he is consuming exactly 4000 cals per day. He could be spot on but some guys may be wrong and under estimating. He would need a lot of peanut butter in that shake to make it 1000 cals. There are many variables but don't always think it has to be the gear everytime.

 

[psych]

what does training look like?

everyone has a great point.

If your gear is bunk flag that shit.

 

[AR-15]

Hey fellas I'm not one to jump on blaming gear first thing out of the gate. Main reason is because a lot of my clients that I train do this all the time whether they are SUPPOSEDLY very experienced in AAS or first timers. Two weeks into the cycle if they havnt seen any life changing gains they automatically accuse me of giving them bunk gear and blah blah blah. Now I always give them a very clear diet to follow and training homework to do when we're not together. Obviously I don't cook their meals or live with them so at some point I have to trust what they say until I can prove otherwise. I have always given them top notch gear that I knew was as good as gets so really it has always been a matter of me just finding ways to either "A" I have to prove to them that the gear given is 100%, which gets old when I know it is or "B" a provide them with shakes, meals, whatever I can think of to force feed them in front of me. Usually when it gets to that point they realize I'm on to the fact that they are either lazy fucks who think AAS will make them grow by just taking them or "B" they are just lazy fucks who thinks AAS will make them grow just by taking them. Not everybody is that way but there's always that one person. Point is if I didn't know the gear I use is top notch and I have to trust what that one guy is telling me about his at home diet and training. The next logical step would be the gear. I'm sorry but it would be. I don't know MilburnC from a hole in the wall but I see his post count, pic, and his post which he says is what he's doing. I take all that into account and leads me to believe he has interacted with this board and its members for awhile and I don't think he would make a post like that if he wasn't frustrated cause something wasn't adding up. I'm not saying gear is bunk and I'm not saying his diet is off. That's all above my pay grade. But I will say I've been on AAS over the last 15 or so years far more than I've been off and even if my receptors were soaked from extended use of aas and I started a new cycle five weeks in of Dbol and Test and I saw or felt nothing. I'd be one pissed off Mofo cause I should at the very least have a pimple. I'd like to hear more from MC about whether he has really had no gains anywhere. More details about past cycles like length, layoff between, etc. If all that panned out then if it were me I'd be sending my gear to a lab ASAP. And if it came back good then I'd be a man and post it and then take a hard look at myself, my training, my diet, and my dedication. If it came back bunk then I'd contact the source and see if there was a reason for a bad batch and would expect a very large good batch back and would let the mods know so they can decide where to take it from there. He could have gotten bad powder and never knew it. Which I would doubt cause if you know your powders you kinda know to a point on what you got. And that's all I'm gonna say about that cause I've rambled on enough....AR....

 

[MilburnCreek]

Just to be clear, I'm not blaming the gear either...I use reputable, longstanding sources with which you are all familiar.

If it provides any insight, I cruise between cycles at 350 sus/week, with 8 weeks between cycles. I actually think - given how hard I push myself - that I may be overtraining.

 

[bigpoppie]

Just to be clear, I'm not blaming the gear either...I use reputable, longstanding sources with which you are all familiar.

If it provides any insight, I cruise between cycles at 350 sus/week, with 8 weeks between cycles. I actually think - given how hard I push myself - that I may be overtraining.

Dude, you just doubled your cruise compound and pop 25 dbol 4 times a week. I'd say youre not seeing anything because you essentially didnt change much. Your body is accustomed to the sust and that dbol dosage is a waist.

 

[Elvia1023]

Hey fellas I'm not one to jump on blaming gear first thing out of the gate. Main reason is because a lot of my clients that I train do this all the time whether they are SUPPOSEDLY very experienced in AAS or first timers. Two weeks into the cycle if they havnt seen any life changing gains they automatically accuse me of giving them bunk gear and blah blah blah. Now I always give them a very clear diet to follow and training homework to do when we're not together. Obviously I don't cook their meals or live with them so at some point I have to trust what they say until I can prove otherwise. I have always given them top notch gear that I knew was as good as gets so really it has always been a matter of me just finding ways to either "A" I have to prove to them that the gear given is 100%, which gets old when I know it is or "B" a provide them with shakes, meals, whatever I can think of to force feed them in front of me. Usually when it gets to that point they realize I'm on to the fact that they are either lazy fucks who think AAS will make them grow by just taking them or "B" they are just lazy fucks who thinks AAS will make them grow just by taking them. Not everybody is that way but there's always that one person. Point is if I didn't know the gear I use is top notch and I have to trust what that one guy is telling me about his at home diet and training. The next logical step would be the gear. I'm sorry but it would be. I don't know MilburnC from a hole in the wall but I see his post count, pic, and his post which he says is what he's doing. I take all that into account and leads me to believe he has interacted with this board and its members for awhile and I don't think he would make a post like that if he wasn't frustrated cause something wasn't adding up. I'm not saying gear is bunk and I'm not saying his diet is off. That's all above my pay grade. But I will say I've been on AAS over the last 15 or so years far more than I've been off and even if my receptors were soaked from extended use of aas and I started a new cycle five weeks in of Dbol and Test and I saw or felt nothing. I'd be one pissed off Mofo cause I should at the very least have a pimple. I'd like to hear more from MC about whether he has really had no gains anywhere. More details about past cycles like length, layoff between, etc. If all that panned out then if it were me I'd be sending my gear to a lab ASAP. And if it came back good then I'd be a man and post it and then take a hard look at myself, my training, my diet, and my dedication. If it came back bunk then I'd contact the source and see if there was a reason for a bad batch and would expect a very large good batch back and would let the mods know so they can decide where to take it from there. He could have gotten bad powder and never knew it. Which I would doubt cause if you know your powders you kinda know to a point on what you got. And that's all I'm gonna say about that cause I've rambled on enough....AR....

I reckon if you gave 100 random people from any bodybuilding site a diet plan to follow I would guess no more than 20% would follow that diet plan 100%. That is in no way related to Milburn but just giving an example. Again 25mg dbol 4 times per week is not alot as is the rest of his cycle (week 5) especially if he cruises on 350mg sust per week. Moreover you have to take into consideration the fact he is 55. I should add his cycle is plenty of hormones I just mean when all things are considered.

Then comes the diet and training of course. Milburn if even you think you are overtraining then chances are you are. If you are pushing it to the max and feel tired most of the week then you are never going to grow especially if your diet is not excellent. The diet you listed is far from excellent... my diet is far from excellent too.

Your dbol could be crap who knows. But again too many guys jump to that... Milburn hasn't though which is nice to see. There is alot of shit gear going around though so it wouldn't surprise me. To me this is more of a diet and training thing. Guys can grow on less hormones so Milburn could too. I don't mean to bring age up too much but the fact he is 55 also makes it harder to build quality muscle without added fat. I would change your diet slightly and have a short break from training. Then I think a low volume high frequency training program could be really good. In and out of the gym in 45 mins 4-5 days per week training 2-3 body parts each day. You want a decent serving of protein with every meal too (30-50g). Plus I would add another meal in and see how that goes.

 

[squatster]

Could it have some thing to do with your condition?
Just wondering-
When is the last time you did labs?
I know with your condition every thing can change fast- not really sure what stage you are in with your health.
Your condition could be throwing your cemistry off?

 

[MilburnCreek]

Could it have some thing to do with your condition?
Just wondering-
When is the last time you did labs?
I know with your condition every thing can change fast- not really sure what stage you are in with your health.
Your condition could be throwing your cemistry off?

Thanks for asking...I do labs every 3 months, and everything appears to be fine on every front...

 

[squatster]

Good man- I like to see responsible
Looks like time to change things up
You are probably like the rest of us- burning the candle from both sides-
One thing I will say- try not to take to much rest off from lifting- at our older ages - you will find that it gets harder and harder to get going after a little time off
Just me man

Been some great info in this post -
what are your thoughts?

 

[MilburnCreek]

Been some great info in this post -
what are your thoughts?

Well, I was going to stop the d-bol next week anyway, so I'll just drop that.

I am very, very tired, so perhaps I'll stop trying to be Hulk at every workout and let my body rest a bit...

And, I'll try to eat more (although I'm really not hungry the way I currently eat.)

And maybe spend more time on the free weights like i used to.

 

[squatster]

Your a machine man- at 55 most people would be home on the lazy boy
Keep it going man - your doing great

 

[chicken_hawk]

Hey mc, first much respect and you're an inspiration for me as I am 10 years your younger but hope to keep making gains. That being said, I think the boys jad some things to say. I like magnus' wisdom as usual and m-16 had some cool things to say even if he didnt pass english. New thought=new paragraph.

That being said, it sucks to be frustrated but I say hold the course and things will change. Hold the course because gains are not linear for anyone...neither strength not mass. It comes in spurts particularly if you're fighting middle age.

That being said, I am going to give you my simple take on getting to 275 at 5'11" at my age. Take what you want and leave the rest. Keep in mind I am on my 4th Jack and Diet Coke.

1. Training: high frequency/low volume 3x week ala Magnus
2. Diet: Get your macros and then add gravy to it.
3. Cycles:Switch to low T 300mg week (at 750 youre not fat youre bloated) 750 deca. Reverse the test and deca. Why take more androgen then anabolic?
4. What you're missing: GH,GH,GH and a bit of slin or at least some peptides. GH is underated by those who have never used it...it is the game changer for us older farts. If the budget does not afford then a combo of peps will not dissapoint. Add a bit of slin to improve GH and PRO uptake and life will change.

My 2cc's
Hawk

 

[AR-15]

Thank You Chicken Pigeon.
I'll take your English lesson and promise to do better.

AR

 

[humpthebobcat]

Just to be nit picky and add my 2 cc's I think you should add more fat to your diet...I see you use low fat milk and low fat cheese....I look at low fat and low calorie stuff like someone is trying to rip me off, hold back the good stuff...don't fear the fat!!!